[Article] The reason why God allowed to exist polygamy, slavery, and other bad practices in Israel

[Cerebellum]

Do u acknowledge ung samples ko as what??

It depends on what you are talking about.

Slavery, rape, etc., I agree it's bad.

But I have no problem if God makes a law about it; you do. You cited Bible verses that describe God's qualities, but in your narrative, they didn't fit. So that's not the Bible's fault.

"a powerful and loving god could have done so ng walang further damage IF HE WANTED TO."

..implies that i dont see the harmony ng power at love ni god mo na either he cant or wont do something about slavery

Okay. Pero, do you think God, as you described Him as "loving and powerful," really needs to do what you want Him to do?

And uulitin ko.. i dont believe in ur god… ung statement ko is not a proclamation na i believe those things.. its a criticism sa qualities ng god mo…

Your statements have nothing to do with what I actually believe in about God...

Instead, your statements about God and his words are my, I would say, my focus.

“If he wanted to” was never biblical..

See? You have things you want and don't want in the Bible because hindi nagfi-fit sa narrative mo... It's not biblical pala, but why you still insist...

its the criticism im putting forward to emphasize ung “unharmonious” characters ng god mo..

Not because His characters are not harmoniously work together, actually, rather it's because may gusto kang i-insist na ideya sa Salita ng Diyos pero hindi mo magawa kaya ni-criticize mo na lang

Anyways, so, yan na yung mga naaral mo? Anong reason ba why you study the Bible noon?

 

[Amilgaol]

parang tayo. we are spiritual captive by the darkness. That's why Jesus came to free as from slavery.(Sin, Vices, Strongholds.)

 

[jayendecastro]

Okay. Pero, do you think God, as you described Him as "loving and powerful," really needs to do what you want Him to do?


Your statements have nothing to do with what I actually believe in about God...

Instead, your statements about God and his words are my, I would say, my focus.


See? You have things you want and don't want in the Bible because hindi nagfi-fit sa narrative mo... It's not biblical pala, but why you still insist...


Not because His characters are not harmoniously work together, actually, rather it's because may gusto kang i-insist na ideya sa Salita ng Diyos pero hindi mo magawa kaya ni-criticize mo na lang

Anyways, so, yan na yung mga naaral mo? Anong reason ba why you study the Bible noon?

I answered all of this na…

Paulit ulit ko inexplain sayo ung statement…di mo pa din magets kung bakit ko sinabi un…

Focus mo kamo ung snasabi ko but up to this point di mo pa din magets…

Basahin mo ulit ung explanation ko… two or three more times okay?

Reason?? Explain na naman ako.. why dont you meet me halfway eh explain mo history ng faith mo?? No ryt?? So no na din jan at pampahaba lang yan..

It depends on what you are talking about.

Slavery, rape, etc., I agree it's bad.

But I have no problem if God makes a law about it; you do. You cited Bible verses that describe God's qualities, but in your narrative, they didn't fit. So that's not the Bible's fault.

So whats ur basis para sabihin din na bad ung slavery, rape, etc?

U know those things are wrong and bad pero no problem kasi god was involved… would u do “bad” things in the name of ur god?

 

[Kaplok Kaplok]

But whether both of these things are true or not in my case, a person who wants to know the answers to his questions about "God," whether that individual believes in God in the first place or not, or whether he believes in the Bible or not, what could be the best possible ways to find the answers to his questions about God if he chooses to consider studying the Bible?

That does not make sense so principles ng learning. One should cause the other if learning ang goal. If that is the case you are just confirming your prior belief..

This is not much difference from accusation mo dito kay jayendecastro:

Not because His characters are not harmoniously work together, actually, rather it's because may gusto kang i-insist na ideya sa Salita ng Diyos pero hindi mo magawa kaya ni-criticize mo na lang

Which is confirming the biases of your own mind. The way you said it kinda implies it is a question with his morality, and him following his fallible senses... pero ikaw din naman senses mo lng din ang sinusunod mo, from what you heard from others.

 

[Cerebellum]

would u do “bad” things in the name of ur god?

Why would I need to do that? Would you ba? Commonsense lang paps

Hindi mo ba napag-aralan sa Bible na ang mga Kristiyano ay nasa ilalim na, hindi ng Kautusang Mosaiko, kundi ng "kautusan ng Kristo" which Jesus commanded to his disciples na "ibigin ang kapuwa" nila? Or hindi mo naaral yang part na yan? (Well, hindi ka naman siguro 'kulang sa kaunawaan' pagdating sa bagay na yan to the point na kailangan mo pang i-ask sa'kin yan)

Which is confirming the biases of your own mind. The way you said it kinda implies it is a question with his morality, and him following his fallible senses... pero ikaw din naman senses mo lng din ang sinusunod mo, from what you heard from others.

Here's the thing: we all have that confirmation biases. As what jayendecastro describes: each of us has own understanding sa Bible.

But the difference is, I let the Bible guide me to see how God's qualities harmoniously work together, and I understand it clearly naman na ang kaisipan at paraan ng Diyos ay ibang-iba pagdating sa kaisipan at paraan nating mga tao, kung kaya, may mga pagkakataon na hindi ko (natin) naiintindihan yung ilan sa mga pagkilos na ginawa niya noon. And all of that thing is clearly said in the Bible. (Isaiah 55:8, 9) So why he didn't understand it? Or nung inaaral niya yung Bible eh hindi niya nabasa yan, or kung nabasa niya man yan eh lately na lang kaso nagdecide na siya not to accept that teaching mula sa Bible?

I asked him na nga kung kaninong reasoning ba ang dapat baguhin eh, kung sa Bible ba or yung sa atin? Sinagot niya ba, nope, iniwasan ulet.

That does not make sense so principles ng learning. One should cause the other if learning ang goal. If that is the case you are just confirming your prior belief..

Ikaw din ang sumagot sa tanong mo

Anyways, good night everyone

 

[Kaplok Kaplok]

Here's the thing: we all have that confirmation biases. As what jayendecastro describes: each of us has own understanding sa Bible.

But the difference is, I let the Bible guide me to see how God's qualities harmoniously work together, and I understand it clearly naman na ang kaisipan at paraan ng Diyos ay ibang-iba pagdating sa kaisipan at paraan nating mga tao, kung kaya, may mga pagkakataon na hindi ko (natin) naiintindihan yung ilan sa mga pagkilos na ginawa niya noon. And all of that thing is clearly said in the Bible. (Isaiah 55:8, 9) So why he didn't understand it? Or nung inaaral niya yung Bible eh hindi niya nabasa yan, or kung nabasa niya man yan eh lately na lang kaso nagdecide na siya not to accept that teaching mula sa Bible?

I asked him na nga kung kaninong reasoning ba ang dapat baguhin eh, kung sa Bible ba or yung sa atin? Sinagot niya ba, nope, iniwasan ulet.

So you essentially saying, the Bible is subjective. (Which is really a disqualifier if it is meant to be a basis of standards of good and bad). Any person would say truth is truth, and should be objective.

"You let the Bible guide you to see how God's harmoniously work together" is just a prettier way to say you let one confirm the other. Echo chamber.

Which means all you need something to confirm your belief to deems something as "truth". By the way, you can do that to convince people of anything (that is why a pointed out scammy practices like networking, power!!)

Besides, you are baselessly accusing him na nagdecide na sya hindi paniwalaan, as a justification na pareho lang kayo subjective. But are you sure na hindi nya binasa ang Bible objectively?

It is hypocritical na atheist are portrayed as the one following their own intellect and "leaning on their own understanding", but the truth is the whole faith is based on exactly that. At least an atheist usaully base their truth on the greater society(keep this in mind for the next paragraph). Seems like it is christian-based believers are the ones more prone to worshipping themself, albeit, pretending it was God.

I am not saying you and Christians are bad. In fact you are also mostly basing your morality to the greater society too, just like atheist. Kaya you can say that the bad practices on the Bible are "bad practices". You are just providing rationalizations for the Bible to match yours and atheist morality, to keep with the charade that you are following the Bible.

 

[jayendecastro]

Why would I need to do that? Would you ba? Commonsense lang paps

Hindi mo ba napag-aralan sa Bible na ang mga Kristiyano ay nasa ilalim na, hindi ng Kautusang Mosaiko, kundi ng "kautusan ng Kristo" which Jesus commanded to his disciples na "ibigin ang kapuwa" nila? Or hindi mo naaral yang part na yan? (Well, hindi ka naman siguro 'kulang sa kaunawaan' pagdating sa bagay na yan to the point na kailangan mo pang i-ask sa'kin yan)

Good. So u will not follow ur god kung ang ipapagawa nea sayo eh masama..
atleast ur morality is better than the god ur defending somehow…

Old and new covenant…yadi yadi yah… Sure ibigin ang kapwa… so u love ur neighbor because jesus commanded u to do so?? Buti na lang un ang iniutos ni jesus… hahaha

So is that ur basis to say slavery, incest, rape etc is bad?? “Ibigin ang kapwa”

God and jesus was doing the whole bad cop-good cop routine lang pala

Here's the thing: we all have that confirmation biases. As what jayendecastro describes: each of us has own understanding sa Bible.

But the difference is, I let the Bible guide me to see how God's qualities harmoniously work together, and I understand it clearly naman na ang kaisipan at paraan ng Diyos ay ibang-iba pagdating sa kaisipan at paraan nating mga tao, kung kaya, may mga pagkakataon na hindi ko (natin) naiintindihan yung ilan sa mga pagkilos na ginawa niya noon. And all of that thing is clearly said in the Bible. (Isaiah 55:8, 9) So why he didn't understand it? Or nung inaaral niya yung Bible eh hindi niya nabasa yan, or kung nabasa niya man yan eh lately na lang kaso nagdecide na siya not to accept that teaching mula sa Bible?

I asked him na nga kung kaninong reasoning ba ang dapat baguhin eh, kung sa Bible ba or yung sa atin? Sinagot niya ba, nope, iniwasan ulet.


Ikaw din ang sumagot sa tanong mo

Anyways, good night everyone

Confirmation bias?? Panong naging difference in understanding eh confirmation bias??

I granted most of the points na gusto mo iconsider ko… the whole point nung criticism eh maging skeptic ka atleast sa character ni god mo..perhaps ur the one na gusto lang nag affirmation at confirmation sa paniniwala mo.. at pag may push back…

“eh kasi di mo inaral…”
“Di ka kasi sincere…”
“Eh gusto ko malaman ung alam mo..”
“Eh commonsense lang kasi kahit bata kaya….”
“di natin naiintindhan kilos ni god…”

Comprehensible at commonsense pambata pero at the same time merong di naiintindihan…pano naging commonsense un??

Commonsense pero sandamakmak kayong theists na nagtatalo talo among yourselves… ur reasoning about the bible is just one of many… ur thinking is, aligned ung logic mo sa bible just like ibang theists din na ganan ang iniisip…

hhhmmmm…bka ng flexible ang bible for interpetation…flexible ang bible sa “truths”…

Pag nagkakasundo na kayong mga bible believers about sa logic ng bible at may unified doctrine na kayo sguro un by that time masasabi mo na yang tayo ang magadjust sa bible..dapat madali yan sa isang comprehensible at commonsense pambata db??

Pasilent silent si bible ka pa.. pag silent eh di silent…pag di naiitindihan eh di we dont understand or we dont know… pero u still tried to explain and justify something na ganong silent at di nman pala naiintidihan in the end…

Byeeerz na paps…

 

[Kaplok Kaplok]

Good. So u will not follow ur god kung ang ipapagawa nea sayo eh masama..
atleast ur morality is better than the god ur defending somehow…

Old and new covenant…yadi yadi yah… Sure ibigin ang kapwa… so u love ur neighbor because jesus commanded u to do so?? Buti na lang un ang iniutos ni jesus… hahaha

So is that ur basis to say slavery, incest, rape etc is bad?? “Ibigin ang kapwa”

God and jesus was doing the whole bad cop-good cop routine lang pala


Confirmation bias?? Panong naging difference in understanding eh confirmation bias??

I granted most of the points na gusto mo iconsider ko… the whole point nung criticism eh maging skeptic ka atleast sa character ni god mo..perhaps ur the one na gusto lang nag affirmation at confirmation sa paniniwala mo.. at pag may push back…

“eh kasi di mo inaral…”
“Di ka kasi sincere…”
“Eh gusto ko malaman ung alam mo..”
“Eh commonsense lang kasi kahit bata kaya….”
“di natin naiintindhan kilos ni god…”

Comprehensible at commonsense pambata pero at the same time merong di naiintindihan…pano naging commonsense un??

Commonsense pero sandamakmak kayong theists na nagtatalo talo among yourselves… ur reasoning about the bible is just one of many… ur thinking is, aligned ung logic mo sa bible just like ibang theists din na ganan ang iniisip…

hhhmmmm…bka ng flexible ang bible for interpetation…flexible ang bible sa “truths”…

Pag nagkakasundo na kayong mga bible believers about sa logic ng bible at may unified doctrine na kayo sguro un by that time masasabi mo na yang tayo ang magadjust sa bible..dapat madali yan sa isang comprehensible at commonsense pambata db??

Pasilent silent si bible ka pa.. pag silent eh di silent…pag di naiitindihan eh di we dont understand or we dont know… pero u still tried to explain and justify something na ganong silent at di nman pala naiintidihan in the end…

Byeeerz na paps…

Pansin ko nga. Pag isang claiming theist deconvert, it is because hindi siya sincere to begin with, at may maling motivation. Pag isang claiming atheist ang nagconvert.. suddenly it is a "very strong proof". Forget that he might be uninsterested in science, or forget that he might have other motivations for converting.

 

[jayendecastro]

Pansin ko nga. Pag isang claiming theist deconvert, it is because hindi siya sincere to begin with, at may maling motivation. Pag isang claiming atheist ang nagconvert.. suddenly it is a "very strong proof". Forget that he might be uninsterested in science, or forget that he might have other motivations for converting.

Yep.. pag nagwalk away ka sa religion..ung character or intellect and even ung motivation ung kinukwestyon… pero pag non believers..lalo na pag nasa field ng science eh they wear it like a badge of honor na nagconvert sa kanila..

To be honest, it took me years to completely deconstruct ung paniniwala ko… and di sya madali personally and pati sa people around me. Di alam ng maraming theists yan at akala nila basta lang kumokontra..basta lang nagccriticize…

 

[Cerebellum]

atleast ur morality is better than the god ur defending somehow…

Yan ang views mo and opinion.

Comprehensible at commonsense pambata pero at the same time merong di naiintindihan…pano naging commonsense un??

May mga bagay naman talaga na hindi basta-basta naiintindihan ng mga bata dahil sa kapasidad ng kaisipan nila.. Is that incomprehensible on your part? Commonsense lang paps..

Pag nagkakasundo na kayong mga bible believers about sa logic ng bible at may unified doctrine na kayo sguro un by that time masasabi mo na yang tayo ang magadjust sa bible..

Aah, so yan pala ang hinihintay mong mangyari before ikaw mismo ang mag-adjust sa Bible.

it took me years to completely deconstruct ung paniniwala ko…

Noted.

Byeeerz na paps

Bye din po.

You are just providing rationalizations for the Bible to match yours and atheist morality, to keep with the charade that you are following the Bible

Sa ilang parts ng sinabi mo, agree ako. But I know naman na hindi kailanman mangyayari na magtatagpo ang "morality" na alam/pinanghahawakan ng mga atheist sa views ng Bible sa "good and bad". That's the whole point of Isaiah 55:8, 9 which he himself still struggling to understand it, and now, I understand why he can't, because he already said that it took years for him to completely deconstruct his beliefs, and maybe, somehow, in the future, that existing "possibilities" he mentioned might push him to "understand" it, if that will take years, again.

 

[Kaplok Kaplok]

Yan ang views mo and opinion.

I do not get this response. Backtrack natin, i will take my liberty to rephrase.

sabi nya, you would still have more morality than your God. >this is in response to you saying you would still not do the bad things even if the Bible prescribes it, and you said it was common sense.

Ang non-climactic naman at dismissive ng sagot mo. Seems like iniiwasan mo yata yung point nya.

He is pointing out na either you are worshipping a God which is not the same as the Bible (no harmony), or if you insist that they are in harmony, you are not really basing your morality in your belief and faith like you make it seem. Your morality is still extra-biblical.

 

[Cerebellum]

Ang non-climactic naman at dismissive ng sagot mo. Seems like iniiwasan mo yata yung point nya.

That's your opinion din. To say na iniiwasan ko, ikaw ang nagsasabi nya'n, hindi ako.

Kanino galing yung opinyon, sa kaniya diba? So he's entitled to say whatever he wants to say about my beliefs and my views. But whatever he says, that's not my views or Bible views.

He is pointing out na either you are worshipping a God which is not the same as the Bible (no harmony), or if you insist that they are in harmony, you are not really basing your morality in your belief and faith like you make it seem. Your morality is still extra-biblical.

Again, this is your opinion on how I worship God.

The morality you and decastro holding to eh hindi kailanman tutugma sa sinasabi ng Bibliya na "good and bad"

So if I agree sa sinabi niyo na something is "bad", eh that's not mean I declined and I'm not holding to the Bible views on what is good and bad... It's just, both of you, did not really understand how I view things...

and as this conversation continue, both of you nga eh hindi maintindihan yung Bible views the way na hindi niyo maintindihan kung Biblical or not Biblical yung views ko Both of you proved my point in Isaiah 55:8, 9.. Atheist views of good and bad will never be in lined with Bible's views of what is good and bad...

 

[Kaplok Kaplok]

That's the whole point of Isaiah 55:8, 9 which he himself still struggling to understand that, and now, I understand why he can't, because he already said that it took years for him to completely deconstruct his beliefs.

How did you come up with that conclusion? Hindi ba pwedeng hindi tlga sapat na paliwanag yan regardless of his background?
The verse is simply saying "god does not play by the same rules as us, he can do what he want, and we are in no position to judge his action, but he is strict with rules applying to us"

Now, even if I am not a militant atheist, and activly searching for a god to worship, kahit ikaw I don't think that would be a good God to follow.

The morality you and decastro holding to eh hindi kailanman tutugma sa sinasabi ng Bibliya na "good and bad"

I don't think either of us is claiming or desires na matugma sa Bible. Kung ako, what i am trying to point out is morality ng theist like you. Does is match the Bible or does it not? To me, you pick and choose parts of the bible that sounds nice to you, which is exactly how I do it as an atheist... except I don't rationalize the bad parts, sometimes, this fictional god is wrong because the people who envision or "created" him is wrong. He is simply a reflection of the believers as a group.

 

[Cerebellum]

Hindi ba pwedeng hindi tlga sapat na paliwanag yan regardless of his background?

On his part, whatever the reason is, if he chose not to consider that Bible verse even he says he studied it, I have nothing to say na about it.

even if I am not a militant atheist, and activly searching for a god to worship, kahit ikaw I don't think that would be a good God to follow.

Dyan ulit pumapasok yung how we view "good" and "bad". If you think that way, eh "views mo" and choice mo yan, not to worship God, and to say na it's not a "good" God to follow.

you pick and choose parts of the bible that sounds nice to you, which is exactly how I do it as an atheist... except I don't rationalize the bad parts

You admitted it.

I'm not picking and choosing. I'd rather accept the fact that God's views of good and bad is far more different from our views of what is good and bad than to choose my views as basis to judge God's actions and make it as an excuse not to change the way I view things as I study the Bible.

 

[jayendecastro]

Yan ang views mo and opinion.


May mga bagay naman talaga na hindi basta-basta naiintindihan ng mga bata dahil sa kapasidad ng kaisipan nila.. Is that incomprehensible on your part? Commonsense lang paps..

Last lang… ang bata na walang alam sa isang bagay ang sasabihin nyan “di ko po alam” or kung may sagot man yan eh most likely “nanghuhula” na lang yan… thats basically what u are doing…

Ur offering explanation sa bagay na later on sabihin mo silent at di maintindihan lahat…

Did u personally come up with the surgeon analogy or was it discussed sa study group nyo??

Aah, so yan pala ang hinihintay mong mangyari before ikaw mismo ang mag-adjust sa Bible.

Hilig mo din talaga magtwist ng mga response sayo eh noh… did i say mag aadjust ako sa bible??

“Pag nagkakasundo na kayong mga bible believers about sa logic ng bible at may unified doctrine na kayo sguro un by that time MASASABI mo na yang tayo ang magadjust sa bible..dapat madali yan sa isang comprehensible at commonsense pambata db??”

Di mo gets kaya tawa na lang at twisting keme… pag unified na doctrine nyo tska mo pa lang pd gamitin ung paulit ulit mo na sinasab na “ano??bible ba ang magaadjust para sayo”…Basahin mo kasi maige muna bago react agad.. masasabi mo lang sya as ur reason…di yan matic na ganun ang gagawin ng tao… nakita mo lang ung “tayo ang mahaadjust sa bible” talon ka na agad… tapos di mo na qinoute ung tanong in the end para di mo na need sagutin… hahahaha

On his part, whatever the reason is, if he chose not to consider that Bible verse even he says he studied it, I have nothing to say na about it.


Dyan ulit pumapasok yung how we view "good" and "bad". If you think that way, eh "views mo" and choice mo yan, not to worship God, and to say na it's not a "good" God to follow.


You admitted it.

I'm not picking and choosing. I'd rather accept the fact that God's views of good and bad is far more different from our views of what is good and bad than to choose my views as basis to judge God's actions and make it as an excuse not to change the way I view things as I study the Bible.

“even if he says he studied it….”
Para sayo kasi para sabihin na someone “studied” the bible eh dapat pareho ng conclusion mo.

You are picking ang choosing. U admitted n nga na masama ang slavery.. though iniwasan mo sagutin ang basehan mo to say so still u know its bad pero u just rather accept na god’s ways and views is different instead of accepting it for what it is. Not only is ur god “tolerating” evil..he does it too…tapos accept lang na iba kasi si god and he can do watever he wants kasi he knows better chorva…

Para kang may battered wife syndrome…

Last na yan promise …

 

[Kaplok Kaplok]

You admitted it.

Admitted what? That I pick and choose which parts of the Bible feels nice? Aren't we all?

I dare you claim you don't do that. Bakit mo kailangan i-rationalize ang morality ng Bible if that's the case? Obviously you are making this rationalization to make the Bible fit YOUR morality, and this morality you make it fit to, it is likely the same with us atheist and wider society.
When you do this, how do you guage that this is a "good" explanation? Perhaps because it sounds and feels good to YOU.. (which honestly is what I like with JW contents, because they feel good to me too, and very human)

You just refuse to say explicitly that these are YOUR understanding, and wisdom allowing you to do this. You know you deserve more credit than you gove yourself.

P.S. when a theist claims that "you can't be questioning God" by invoking Isaiah 55:8, they are really saying,

"You can't be questioning ME, and the likeness of the god of MY claims."

And what follows is "you must submit yourself to [MY] god, or if you won't.. then just shut up."

The way I put it sounds wrong diba? Even if it is essentially what the bible said. Because you do have a set of standards of right and wrong outside the bible like us.