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Vanch1018

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Earth remains forever?

The Watchtower uses several lines of reasoning to support the idea that people will live forever on earth.

Adam
Forever scriptures
Jewish restoration prophecies
Jesus Statements
None of these concepts prove the earth will continue forever.

1. Adam
God told Adam he will die in the day of eating from the tree of good and bad. The Watchtower says this implies that Adam wouldn't die if he didn't eat the fruit. This is a poor form of reasoning referred to as argument from silence.

"Not all of God's living creation is eternal. We know that plants, even long-lived trees, eventually die. (1 Pet. 1:24) And there is no Biblical evidence that God purposed for individual animals to live forever. Yet it was different with humans. God held out to our first parents the prospect of never dying. By obedience they could have hoped to live eternally. (Gen. 2:17)"
Watchtower 1974 Jun 15 p.376

A non statement should not be used to formulate doctrine. A conclusion cannot be drawn from something that God did not say. If Adam had been faithful, God may have had any number of plans for Adam, none of which are touched upon in Genesis. If all other aspects of earthly creation tend to decay and death it makes as much sense to conclude that human's earthly existence is also temporary.

Similar reasoning is used when saying Isaiah 45:18 proves the earth remains forever:

"This is what Jehovah has said, the Creator of the heavens, He the true God, the Former of the earth and the Maker of it, He the One who firmly established it, who did not create it simply for nothing, who formed it even to be inhabited."

It is an un-stated conclusion that the earth will last forever. All that can be drawn from this is that for a period of time God wanted the earth to be inhabited.

2. 'Forever scriptures'
The main support for the Watchtower doctrine that mankind will live forever on earth are Old Testament scriptures that say the earth will reside to time indefinite or forever. These are not proof the earth will never perish for the following reasons;

Forever can be used figuratively in the Bible
The Bible says the earth will be destroyed
All these references come from the poetic books
The Earth remains forever
The following scriptures that say that the earth will last to time indefinite or forever are all from just two Bible books, Psalms and Ecclesiastes, both devoted to poetry.

Psalm 37:29 "The righteous themselves will possess the earth, And they will reside forever upon it."
Psalm 104:5 "He has founded the earth upon its established places; It will not be made to totter to time indefinite, or forever."

Psalm 78:69 "And he began to build his sanctuary just like the heights, Like the earth that he has founded to time indefinite."

Psalm 104:5 "He has founded the earth upon its established places; It will not be made to totter to time indefinite, or forever."

Ecclesiastes 1:2-4 "The greatest vanity!" the congregator has said, "the greatest vanity! Everything is vanity!" 3 What profit does a man have in all his hard work at which he works hard under the sun?

4 A generation is going, and a generation is coming; but the earth is standing even to time indefinite."
Understanding poetic license, these can not be taken as literal without additional support. Neither do these passages clearly refer to Jesus kingdom rule. The Watchtower shows that it is accepted that these passages refer to the Israelites and the Promised Land.

"Since Psalm 37:29 has been translated "The righteous shall inherit the land, and dwell therein for ever," does it refer simply to Israel's permanently occupying the Promised Land?" Watchtower 1986 Jan 1 p.31

The above rendering of Psalm 37:29 is from the King James Version. As is true of many other versions, it renders the Hebrew 'erets as "land." 'Erets can refer to a distinct region or to the territory of a nation, such as "the land of Shinar" or "the land of Egypt."-Genesis 10:10, 11; 21:21; Psalm 78:12; Jeremiah 25:20. So Psalm 37:11, 29 might indicate that the Israelites could have been and should have been permanent occupants of the Promised Land. In accord with God's covenant with Abraham, they could have remained in that territory that God gave them, with generation after generation enjoying his blessings there. However, it did not work out that way, for the Israelites became unfaithful to God."

Forever figurative
Forever and time indefinite can be figurative and come to an end.

2 Samuel 7:24 "You proceeded to establish your people Israel firmly for yourself as your people to time indefinite; and you yourself, O Jehovah, have become their God."
1 Kings 1:31 "Then Bath-sheba bowed low with her face to the earth and prostrated herself to the king and said: "Let my lord King David live to time indefinite!""
Likewise the false prophet is not literally tormented forever.

Revelation 20:10 "And the Devil who was misleading them was hurled into the lake of fire and sulphur, where both the wild beast and the false prophet [already were]; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever."

3. Jewish restoration prophecies
Isaiah and Ezekiel contain texts describing perfect living conditions. One such text regularly referred to is Isaiah 65.

Isaiah 65:17-25 "For here I am creating new heavens and a new earth; and the former things will not be called to mind, neither will they come up into the heart. 18 But exult, YOU people, and be joyful forever in what I am creating. For here I am creating Jerusalem a cause for joyfulness and her people a cause for exultation. 19 And I will be joyful in Jerusalem and exult in my people; and no more will there be heard in her the sound of weeping or the sound of a plaintive cry." 20 "No more will there come to be a suckling a few days old from that place, neither an old man that does not fulfill his days; for one will die as a mere boy, although a hundred years of age; and as for the sinner, although a hundred years of age he will have evil called down upon him. 21 And they will certainly build houses and have occupancy; and they will certainly plant vineyards and eat [their] fruitage. 22 They will not build and someone else have occupancy; they will not plant and someone else do the eating. For like the days of a tree will the days of my people be; and the work of their own hands my chosen ones will use to the full. 23 They will not toil for nothing, nor will they bring to birth for disturbance; because they are the offspring made up of the blessed ones of Jehovah, and their descendants with them. 24 And it will actually occur that before they call out I myself shall answer; while they are yet speaking, I myself shall hear. 25 "The wolf and the lamb themselves will feed as one, and the lion will eat straw just like the bull; and as for the serpent, his food will be dust. They will do no harm nor cause any ruin in all my holy mountain," Jehovah has said."
These texts are understood to be prophecies of the Jewish deliverance from Babylon, even by the Watchtower Society.

"The initial fulfillment of Isaiah 65:17-19 involved the ancient Jews who, as Isaiah accurately predicted, did return to their homeland, where they reestablished pure worship." Watchtower 2000 Apr 15 p.10

"This prophecy was initially fulfilled in 537 B.C.E. when the Jewish remnant was restored to Jerusalem" Insight on the Scriptures, Volume 2 pp.381-382
Isaiah states that there will continue to be children and like trees these blessed Jews will fulfil their days, grow old and die, certainly not possible in the everlasting paradise the Watchtower promises. Jehovah's promise that he would bless the righteous Israelites with a peaceful life and then death in old age was familiar to the Jews;

Deuteronomy 4:40 ""And you must keep his regulations and his commandments that I am commanding you today, that it may go well with you and your sons after you, and in order that you may lengthen your days on the soil that Jehovah your God is giving you, always.""
Job 36:11 "If they obey and serve, They will finish their days in what is good And their years in pleasantness."
Despite the depiction of death in Isaiah 65, Watchtower uses this text as proof that this earth is to be an everlasting paradise in which death is no more. Isaiah 65:20 quite plainly states that people will die in this paradise after fulfilling their days.

Isaiah 65:20 "No more will there come to be a suckling a few days old from that place, neither an old man that does not fulfill his days; for one will die as a mere boy, although a hundred years of age; and as for the sinner, although a hundred years of age he will have evil called down upon him."
Watchtower attempts to squeeze this passage to fit its doctrine, by combining three separate statements into one, so that only sinners die.

"Those blessed with a lasting place in the new earth will not grow old and inevitably die. Isaiah 65:20 assures us ... If a person chooses to rebel against God, he will not be allowed to continue living. God will remove him. What if the rebellious sinner is a hundred years old? He will die "as a mere boy" compared to having endless life."
The references to death - that no man will not "fulfil his days", and that a man will die as a mere boy - is not being directed at only "sinners," it applies to all people. Sinners are identified uniquely from this group with the phrase, "and as for the sinner ... he will have evil called down upon him."

Can restoration prophecies be used to prove a paradise on this planet?

There is no mention of a secondary application
They discuss a new heavens and new earth
They mention that people will die in this new earth
These contradictions make it necessary for the Watchtower to explain how they fit within their belief structure and so restoration prophecies can not be the basis for belief in eternal earthly paradise if not supported elsewhere.

As with a large portion of Bible prophecy, the Watchtower attempts to fit the fulfilment of the new earth around the second leader, Rutherford. Isaiah is said to have been fulfilled with the release of Rutherford from jail in 1919. The post Armageddon fulfilment is only an addition to this centricity around Watchtower Society application.

"Isaiah's prophecy had a miniature fulfillment when Israel was brought back from captivity in Babylon, but the major fulfillment began to take place from 1919 C.E. with the release of spiritual Israel from captivity to Babylon the Great. Restoration to their "land," their spiritual paradise, was then final and complete, for never again would they fall into bondage to any part of Satan's world empire of false religion." Watchtower 1983 Dec 1 p.31

However, this and other restoration prophecies include features that will also find a physical fulfillment in the Paradise earth."

Likewise the Isaiah book shows that Isaiah 11 was fulfilled in Jewish times, with its secondary fulfilment in 1919. The concept that this refers to a future paradise is almost an afterthought.

"Picture an Israelite who has just learned of Cyrus' decree that the Jews return to Jerusalem and rebuild the temple. Will he leave the security of Babylon to make the long trip home? During Israel's 70-year absence, the deserted fields have become overgrown with weeds. Wolves, leopards, lions, and bears now freely prowl those fields. Cobras too make their home there. The returning Jews will have to depend on domestic animals for survival-flocks and herds will provide milk, wool, and meat, and oxen will pull the plow. Will these fall victim to predators? Will small children be bitten by snakes? What about the danger of being ambushed on the journey?
Isaiah now paints a heartwarming picture of the conditions that God will bring about in the land. He says: "The wolf will actually reside for a while with the male lamb, and with the kid the leopard itself will lie down, and the calf and the maned young lion and the well-fed animal all together; The knowledge of Jehovah will not change animals, but it will affect people. Neither on the way home nor in their restored land will the Israelites need to fear wild beasts or beastlike men.-Ezra 8:21, 22; Isaiah 35:8-10; 65:25.

This prophecy, however, has a larger fulfillment. In 1914, Jesus, the Messiah, was enthroned on heavenly Mount Zion. In 1919 the remaining ones of "the Israel of God" experienced release from Babylonish captivity and shared in the restoration of true worship. (Galatians 6:16) As a result, the way was opened for a modern-day fulfillment of Isaiah's Paradise prophecy.
In that restored Paradise, will Isaiah's prophecy have a further, perhaps more literal, fulfillment? It seems reasonable to think so." Isaiah's Prophecy - Light for all Mankind - I pp.163-164

Revelation 21:1-4 also discusses "a new heavens and a new earth" and is based in part on Isaiah 65. This passage follows on from the final destruction of Satan (Revelation 20:7), placing the establishment of the new earth after the 1,000 year reign of Christ. For this reason, some Christians understand that there will be a new earth created once perfection has again been achieved at the end of Christ's reign. Others are content to admit that God's purpose and the final fulfilment is yet to be fully revealed.

4. Jesus' Earth Quotes
It was only on one occasion that Jesus discusses the earth. He made two statements that are often used by Jehovah's Witnesses as 'proof' that the righteous will live forever on earth. However, these scriptures do not state that the earth will last forever or that people will live on it.

The first statement from Jesus is at Matthew 5:5: "Happy are the mild-tempered ones, since they will inherit the earth."

Most Witnesses are unaware of their own teaching on this scripture, as even the Watchtower does not say that this scripture applies to the Other Sheep. The Watchtower doctrine is that the meek referred to in this passage is Jesus and the earth is his inheritance.

"The anointed members of the Christian congregation are spoken of as having a heavenly inheritance, sharing Jesus' inheritance as his "brothers." (Eph 1:14; Col 1:12; 1Pe 1:4, 5) This includes the earth.-Mt 5:5." Insight on the Scriptures, Volume 1 p.1201

" saying that the 'mild-tempered will inherit the earth.' Yes, those mild-tempered ones who are to be with Christ in his heavenly kingdom will rule over this earth." Watchtower 1974 June 15 pp.377-378

"When Jesus said, as recorded at Matthew 5:5, "Happy are the mild-tempered ones, since they will inherit the earth," of whom was he speaking?-H. S., U.S.A.
Jesus here applied the expression "mild-tempered" or "meek" to his disciples of that time who were in line for the heavenly kingdom. He was the chief meek one among them and their example. Hebrews 1:1, 2 and 2:5, 6 show that Jesus inherits the earth or takes over the possession of it. His disciples were made his joint heirs in the Kingdom and enter into this inheritance or possession of the earth with him. Hence Matthew 5:5 does not strictly apply to the "other sheep."" Watchtower 1959 August 1 p.479
"Will that mark the fulfillment of Jesus' promise: "Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth"? No, at least not primarily. Those words, first uttered by the psalmist David, apply first of all to the pre-eminently meek One, Jesus Christ, to whom his Father, Jehovah God, said: "Ask of me, that I may give nations as your inheritance and the ends of the earth as your own possession." Inheriting the earth is part of his reward for his meek and faithful course while a man.-Matt. 5:5, AS; Ps. 2:8." Watchtower 1958 Mar 1 p.139
Sharing this inheritance with Jesus Christ will be his "bride," those footstep followers of his, limited to 144,000, who will receive a heavenly reward. (Rev. 14:1, 3) Thus the apostle Paul tells them: "If, then, we are children, we are also heirs: heirs indeed of God, but joint heirs with Christ." Jesus refers to these specially favored followers of his as a "little flock." However, the principle enunciated at Matthew 5:5 applies also to Jesus' other sheep who, as meek ones, will receive everlasting life on earth. How so? In that they will hold the earth in trust for Christ and his bride, permanent tenants, as it were."

Following this statement Jesus went on to recite the Lord's Prayer, stating at Matthew 6:10; "Let your kingdom come. Let your will take place, as in heaven, also upon earth."

The Lord's Prayer does not state that the earth is to last forever or be lived on. In fact this scripture contradicts Watchtower doctrine as it indicates God's will was already done in heaven when Jesus made this statement.

Logistical Impossibility

Watchtower depictions of paradise contain surreal images of tamed animals, children, and luxury houses separated by many kilometres of parkland. These pictures may well lure people to the religion, wishing to belong to such a world, but are not based on any form of reality.

paradise earth awake dec 22 2005
Awake! 2005 Dec 22

Paradise jw video 2014 child with books and tiger
JW.org Video 2014

Certainly, without death there will be no children, as the earth would soon fill to capacity.

"When the mandate to fill the earth is fulfilled, when childbearing ceases, the marriage partners may continue their association together as life companions, or they may not, depending upon the divine will at that future, distant time." Watchtower 1952 Aug 1 p.478
"At the end of the thousand years, the earth being filled, there will be no more occasion for marriage, the marital relationship and the rearing of children." Face The Facts (1938) pp.58-59

These pictures include complex materials used to create beautiful houses and bound books. Yet this world appears to contain no infrastructure; no roads, factories or electricity. If people are going to travel, research, and enjoy many of wonders of modern life, there will need to be modern infrastructure, unlike what is portrayed in almost all Watchtower depictions of the New System.

There are also very few people shown to be inhabiting vast amounts of land. A logistical question is, "If all the dead are to be resurrected onto earth, will they all fit?" Watchtower reasoning claims there will be ample room, based on a figure that only 20 billion people lived prior to 1900.

The figure of 20 billion is highly dubious, with the real figure likely to be several times greater than this. To highlight how little effort has gone into using a correct figure note that the Watchtower has been using the same number for over 100 years now. In 1925, The Way to Paradise p.209 stated:

"It is very doubtful if there have ever been as many as 20,000,000,000 people born on this earth."
In 1988, the Insight book was still using the same estimate of 20 billion people, despite 9 billion people having been born during the 1900's.

"A very liberal estimate of the number of persons that have ever lived on earth is 20 billion (20,000,000,000). The land surface of the earth at present is about 148,000,000 sq km (57,000,000 sq mi), or about 14,800,000,000 ha (36,500,000,000 acres). Even allowing half of that to be set aside for other uses, there would be more than a third of a hectare (almost 1 acre) for each person. As to earth's potential food production, a third of a hectare will actually provide much more than enough food for one person, especially when, as God has demonstrated in the case of the nation of Israel, there is abundance of food as a result of God's blessing." Insight on the Scriptures Vol. 2 p.792
The figure used by the Watchtower Society is without basis and the Population Reference Bureau estimates that 105 billion people have been born over the last 2,000 thousand years alone.

The earth has 148,000,000 km of land (although only approximately 31,000,000 km is arable). With 6 billion people the average amount of land per person is 5 acres. With 100 billion people this would be reduced to less than 1/3 of an acre each. This is unsustainable by any ecological model. However the figure is even less, as the entire world can never be arable, as this would entail not only growing crops on the highest rocky mountains, but also clearing all forests. To understand the magnitude of these figures, in 2000 China had 135 people per square kilometer; with 100 billion people resurrected there would be over 715 people per square kilometer.

If 100 billion people were to be resurrected on to earth there would not be a paradise of sparsely populated tracts of land, filled with smiling children living in mansions.

Scientific reality

The Fundamentalist answer to this is that "with God all things are possible". If God says the earth will stay forever, he will make sure it does. God has the power to refuel the sun or reheat the earth's core. For instance the Watchtower says:

"Also, some scientists warn that the earth and all life on it may be threatened by such things as a large meteorite, an exploding star, or the exhaustion of the sun’s hydrogen fuel. Scientists believe that the earth will gradually—perhaps over many billions of years—lose the ability to sustain human life. The Encyclopædia Britannica describes this as “the irreversible tendency toward disorder.” Happily, the Bible assures us that Jehovah God will not allow our earth to be destroyed or rendered uninhabitable. As Creator, he has limitless “dynamic energy,” so he can sustain the universe indefinitely." Watchtower 2008 Apr 1 p.10
Though theoretically possible for God, such a line of argument allows anyone to believe anything. This view also contradicts one of the apparent proofs for a God; the structured order in the universe. If the universe is mathematically perfect, as Jehovah's Witnesses state, God is going against his order of things to change the destiny of the sun. In fact, if with God all things are possible, why did he create things in such a way that the sun is dying? Why not just create the universe in such a way as to last forever?

In line with science, the Bible states at 2 Peter 3:12,13 that the "heavens being on fire will be dissolved and [the] elements being intensely hot will melt! But there are new heavens and a new earth that we are awaiting according to his promise, and in these righteousness is to dwell." The Bible does not clarify God's plan for this new earth so speculation is pointless.

Nature itself indicates that earthly life is not to be immortal. Well before the sin of Adam God had put into creation, both living and inanimate, the tendency to decay. Animals and vegetation did not inherit sin, yet all living animals and vegetation die as the natural order of life. Genesis 3:22 explains God removed Adam and Eve from the Garden of Eden to prevent them from eating from the tree of life to prevent the from living "to time indefinite", indicating they were not created immortal.
 
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Haha post rin ako since may freewill naman ang pinas. Kapagod naman basahin paps!:ROFLMAO: Di ko na tuloy alam ang point mo. Pero para sakin, lahat ng nabigyan ng buhay ang mawawalan rin(naniniwala kaba na may buhay ang mismong earth natin?) At hindi lang po ang earth pati na ang na sa solar system. By Studies of Science paps sagot ko hindi pero matagal pa hahaha.. Dadami pa lahi ng bawat isa satin.
 
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Haha post rin ako since may free-well naman ang pinas. Kapagod naman basahin paps!:ROFLMAO: Di ko na tulay alam ang point mo. Pero para sakin, lahat ng nabigyan ng buhay ang mawawalan rin(naniniwala kaba na may buhay ang mismong earth natin?) At hindi lang po ang earth pati na ang solar system. By Studies of Science paps sagot ko hindi pero matagal pa hahaha.. Dadami pa lahi ng bawat isa satin.

Sege sir.tama yan para mayron naman dagdag kaalaman sa mga naghahanap
 
Jw.org ang tamang impormasyon about sa mga jw.. marami apostate na website na against sa jw, mahirap magtiwala sa mga ganyan.
 
Pero kung magpapaniwala kayo dyan nasa sa inyo nayan.. may kanya kanya tayong kalayaan kung ano paniniwalaan natin o hindi..
 
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